California should secede immediately (Nov 4, 2004) along with Oregon and Washington state and create a new coutnry called Pacifica. It will be the 5th largest economy in the world. It will be a net gain for the taxpayers of these regions.

California should legalize marijuana, recognize gay marriage, eliminate the word God from the pledge and our money, and anything else that might upset the rest of the country, so that they’ll let us go without any violence.

The unjust war in Iraq, the mixing of religion and politics, and the suppression of free speech mean that it is necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have tied them to another…

This would be a dream come true, minus the logistical nightmares. For example, when we eventually build a security fence, it will have to start at Brownsville, Texas, go to the California border, then head north a really long distance. That will cost us something to go all the way to the Canadian border between Washington and Idaho. In the long run, it will be worth it.

Imagine the electoral map minus Pacifica. Conservatism will rule the other 47 states, and California can turn into Greater Mexico. I have shocking news for Mr. Killelea: American citizens are leaving California, on net, already. The process would accelerate until the entire state is Mexican. He can have it if he wants it.

What would we do about the Northeast, Mr. Coleman? Maine, VT, MA, CT, RI, NY (at least the part from Albany to NYC), NJ, DE, MD are all cesspools of liberalism every bit as horrible as CA, OR, and WA. How about we deport all liberals from the Northeast (along with those in other assorted enclaves like IL and MN) in exchange for any tradtional Americans living on the left coast.

Pacifica is the perfect name. It’s matched by that of a Marxist public radio network in the Bay area as I recall. San Francisco (they’ll have to change the name to Che Guevera City or something) would be the new capital.

I object to Carl’s term “liberals FROM the Northeast”. A large number of those loonies moved in from elsewhere in the country. You can usually tell by the “General American” accent. Native Northeasterners are pretty down to earth, whatever their politics. (And don’t forget the 1930s, when ancestral Northeasterners were the only true Americans, refusing to kneel and lick FDR’s treads.)

What’s going on on the coasts is the invasion and concentration of the arrogant New Class. They are a still a minority in their new homes, but can ride atop the remaining yellow-dog Dems and the “rising tide of color” to wrest political control.

New England is Vermont writ large— college counties bled of their productive natives and replaced with suburban pod-people. Rural New York is all red, though, except for Tompkins County, home to Cornell:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

Tompkins never voted for FDR!!

Sorry Mr. Caesar. You’re right the Northeast is indeed Vermont writ large. Even the last Yankee holdout, New Hampshire, seems to be falling under the invasion of the pod people.

Now if we just deport these New Class types to Pacifica, and make certain that there are plenty of Nukes targeted directly upon them, we might even have a chance to restore America.

I love the idea of California secession!! As a Bay Area resident I think there is nothing we’d like better than have the enlightened West Coast disassociate ourselves from Bush’s new theocracy. The West Coast (with the addition of liberal British Columbia) in itself would be an economy nearly equal in size to the rest of the country and with a more unified European Union the remaining conservatives in the South will find themselves as only one of three global superpowers. And quite unlike during WWII, the Western World (which no longer includes the American south or midwest) will give refuge to the ethnic and other minorities fleeing from a conservative, right-wing totalitarianism. I don’t doubt that with the Radical Religious Right’s newfound stranglehold on American culture Canada and Europe may soon begin giving political asylum seeker status to American homosexuals.

Great idea, Maupin! We’ll send you all of the Muslims from Michigan as well. Perhaps when enough of them come into your progressive utopia, they’ll be able to set up Sharia courts to deal with folks like you. It’s a pleasant thought, anyway.

Maupin writes:

“The West Coast (with the addition of liberal British Columbia) in itself would be an economy nearly equal in size to the rest of the country”

It is a shame you have skipped your math classes.

“remaining conservatives in the South will find themselves as only one of three global superpowers.”

Perhaps The First Pink Fleet based in San Francisco and a Hippy Weed Grower infantry battalion from Oregon will find it difficult to scare Chinese and Russkies.

“Setting up Sharia courts to deal with folks like you”??

I suppose you’ve forgotten one of America’s greatest strengths — our blessed Bill of Rights which protects us the power of religious minorities and MAJORITIES from enforcing mob rule onto the rest of us (along with the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment).

And yes, of course I realize that the West Coast doesn’t, in itself, have an economic force as large as the rest of the country. But we do have a sizable chunk of it. My joking about secession was in jest (as was the article this link mentioned) but I’m surprised I’d get such a threatening response from my post. Calm down. :-)

Maupin, you’re forgetting something very crucial. All of those “oppressed others” you want to welcome into your utopia of Pacifica will soon reduce folks like yourself to minority status. They won’t share your generous view of minorities. In fact, they will use raw power to dispose of you in short order once they achieve the numeric strength to do so. That was the point of my sharp jibe.

Your appeal to the Constitution and the 14th amendment would fall upon deaf ears. Mexican reconquistadores and Islamic jihadis regard that document in much the same way as liberals do - a piece of paper that can be disposed of, or used to advance their agenda as they see fit. Carping about Bush’s theocracy is laughable, especially in light of what a liberal he is. Believe it or not, even homosexuals are allowed to draw breath, and even prosper, under the traditionalism this site represents. They are not, however, allowed to set the agenda for the majority population, though. That is where the real dispute lies - all joking aside.

How can ANYONE claim that minority groups are setting the agenda right now? Also, I don’t quite understand how liberals are alone in using the Bill of Rights/Constitution to their advantage. Yes, I realize that everyone acts in their own self-interest, liberals and conservatives both. Yet, isn’t it UNDEMOCRATIC to invoke constitutional protections when those being protected are unpopular (look at suffrage, civil rights movement, slavery, etc, etc) with the majority. The Bill of Rights does, at times, veto the power of democratic majority rule to ensure the rights of minorities aren’t lost in a “mob rule”. This works both ways, of course, for both minorities on the left and right. The point is that throughout our history we have given protection to unpopular groups not because they wield electoral sway (in fact, quite the opposite) but because we have basic principles of majority rule with minority rights enshrined in our nation’s Constitution.

“Maupin, you’re forgetting something very crucial. All of those “oppressed others” you want to welcome into your utopia of Pacifica will soon reduce folks like yourself to minority status. They won’t share your generous view of minorities. In fact, they will use raw power to dispose of you in short order once they achieve the numeric strength to do so. “

So, it won’t be much different than what’s going on right now if you happen to be non-white, atheist, homosexuals or non-Christian. Except, well, it won’t be Christians doing it.

Generally, if you’re being bullied and belittled in some way, you tend not to really care about who is doing it. Mexicans? White Evangelical Christians? Radical Muslims? From the underside of a boot you really don’t care. All you care about is getting out from under the boot and making sure it doesn’t happen again.

Making sure it doesn’t happen again no matter what it takes.

Excuse me for a few minutes, I’ve gotta go make an investment in Kimberly-Clarke. There is gonna be a big demand for tissues to dab away the tears of all those who are so badly oppressed in white, Christian America. Don’t worry though, the superman will soon arise, put down the oppressor-untermensch permanently, and “make sure it doesn’t happen again no matter what it takes”.

> Perhaps The First Pink Fleet based in San Francisco and a Hippy Weed Grower infantry battalion from Oregon will find it difficult to scare Chinese and Russkies.

Oh, Mik… Pink Fleet? is that a fag joke? Oh you are so witty and enlightened. So what night of the week are your KKK meetings anyway?

Mik’s description raises an interesting theorectical question. If the Utopian People’s Republic of Pacifica were to actually come in to existence, how would they defend themselves? In a society like the one leftists envision, sort of a Holland writ large, a small group of jihadis would be able to take the whole thing down with a few well-placed dirty bombs, a few heads sawed off here and there. Even Caudillo Vincente’s inept, narco-moonlighting military would be able to make short work of the Kool-Aid land envisioned by our new secessionists. Who ya gonna call? The UN? A coaltion of the Fabulous, perhaps?

A group is organizing and has a website to gather support for California secession. Go to: http://www.moveoncalifornia.org

New organization is forming to explore California secession. http://www.moveoncalifornia.org