Lawrence,
There are times whwen the multicult left may ahave a point. Perhaps logic is a western invention and objective truth doesn’t exist. These are certainly in short supply in the Islamic world.

The ugly viper of anti-semitism has reared it’s head once again, although it never truly went away. I guess the lives of six million weren’t enough to satiate it’s hunger.

Jews controlling the world….hmmmmmm, that sounds so familiar, where did I heard that before? The name Adolph comes to mind.

Dear Lawrence,

As an unsemitic observer, let me be blunt if I may, stop calling it a “security fence.” This feeds the Jew haters in a way that may be unfamiliar to you. To the average Jew hater the Jews lie about everything in concert. When you call a wall a “security fence” as if it were just a neighborly property divider, you feed the fever swamps. The Jew haters pay just as much attention to lyrical subtleties as the Abe Foxman’s of the world. Just a bit of advice, call a wall “a wall.”

Regards,

Michael

If “security fence” were a euphemism concealing the real purpose of the fence, then Michael might have a point. But it’s not. It’s an accurate, descriptive term. “Wall,” in fact, would be less accurate, since a wall would just be a simple obstruction, whereas this security fence, as I understand it, has all kinds of high-tech features.

A “wall” is generally built from brick, stone, etc.

A “fence” is generally built from wood, chain-link metal, barbed wire, etc.

The pictures I have seen were chained link metal and barbed wire. Calling it a “wall” would be LESS precise than calling it a fence. The use of the word “wall” is advocated by anit-Israel nut cases who want to associate the dence with the Berlin Wall in the public mind. The Berlin Wall, you might recall, was rather solidly built, not from chain links.

No one is complaining that Israel is building a fence. The world is objecting to Israel building a fence which cuts off areas properly held by the Palestinians. Thus fostering Israel’s illegal expansionism.

The name Lord Fluff reminds me of Lord Haw-Haw, the pro-German broadcaster during World War II. This is unrelated to the current thread, but here is an interesting biographical web page on the latter.

http://www.heretical.com/British/joyce.html

In response to the statement by ‘Lord Fluff,’ here is an excellent background on the so-called “Occupied Territories” by former Israeli Ambassador Dore Gold: http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/The_-Occupied_Territories-_A_Primer.asp

A reminder that this Sunday is the Day of Prayer for Israel organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Seven million Christians worlwide are expected to participate, of which Godwilling I’ll be one.

Outstanding. What did Mr. LeFevre suppose the “former Israeli Amassador” would say? What do you suppose a “former Palestinian Ambassador” would say? Better yet, what is the consensus amongst the the nations of planet earth? I’m sure I needn’t remind Mr. LeFevre of the recent UN vote against the “fence” 144 to 4?

“What did Mr. LeFevre suppose the “former Israeli Amassador” would say?”

OK, so no interest in debating the merits of the argument…

“Better yet, what is the consensus amongst the the nations of planet earth?”

Better yet indeed, than ad hominem nonsense. If truth is to be regarded as a popularity contest I wonder how many other of your positions would pass muster? The world seems to have no problem with Palestinians using children in military operations, even though THIS is against international law. So does that mean it’s OK? As long as they’re killing Jews?

“I’m sure I needn’t remind Mr. LeFevre of the recent UN vote against the “fence” 144 to 4?”

Well, considering that it’s the topic of this thread, (see above,) probably not. And it is clear that no further discussion with you is warranted. Good day.

It might be helpful to some recent commentators to rest the idea that Jewish people are a monolithic people for a few months, and see where it leads. It could lead to a realization they are just people. Some do and say the wrong thing but no more than the rest of us. Perhaps it is the juxtaposition of their uncommon gifts with their common human failings that catches the attention of so many of us. Recall the old saying that the higher one climbs, the more one’s bottom shows.

Now, how do the above ideas square with the idea that much of Islam seems bad. That is a difficult question at the moment in part because we have had little time to deal with and understand Islam and its believers. Definitely there are kind and gentle Muslims. Recall the brave Muslims that helped free Private Jessica Lynch and the wife and daughter of an Iranian, who we know about because of Sally Field’s movie Not Without My Daughter. But as a group, something goes wrong. Perhaps it is because they are not the Chosen People and are not Christian. Maybe some other commentators have a better idea.

Speaking in extenuation of the Jews, Mr. Murgos opines:

“Recall the old saying that the higher one climbs, the more one’s bottom shows.”

Or, as a traditionalist Catholic, half-Croatian, half-Irish American said to me once, “Jews are just like everyone else, only more so.”

Mr. Murgos wrote: “Perhaps it is because they are not the Chosen People …”

I think you’ve called it. The Arabs identify as descendents of Ishmael, concerning whom God told Abraham, “And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly … and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac.” (Gen 17:20-21)

The Koran makes Ishmael out to be a prophet, and infers that, the Jews having been cast aside, the Ishmaelites now take their place as the Chosen. It cannot be overemphasized how strongly this appeal is made to racial and ethnic pride. And even though most Mohammedans are not now Arabs, the Ishmael-centric foundation of this religion places it in fierce opposition to Jews, and Christians — both being based on Isaac and Jacob holding the spiritual and Messianic royal line to the exclusion of Ishmael.

And rather ominously, God told this to Ishmael’s mother Hagar: “And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” (Gen 16:12)

“And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him.” (Gen 16:12)

And about four thousand years later, a British historian wrote of Ishmael’s descendants: “These barbarians, undesirable either as friends or foes…” J.B. Bury, History of the Later Roman Empire.

Fascinating reading suggested by Mr. LeFevre and Mr. Auster.

I think it’s crazy that you think your religious beliefs are an excuse to persecute anyone. You condemn entire nations based on the actions of a very thin slice of the population, and scour your religious texts for justification to damn others.

Tell me, what would you do with these Palestinians?

144 countries voted against israel’s barrier.. 144 countries condemn israel’s actions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.. 144 countries condemn a blatant misuse of power by the israeli government… yet, israel continues to defy the world, with the help of our own government!!! honestly.. who rules the world here?!