I also was moved by the entire proceedings. We just can’t expect perfection, which can be expected from a huge talent.

Why couldn’t the cameras have remained on to record the relatives coming up to bid their final farewells and the ultimate interrment? Is this just another sign of the complete lack of professionalism in the media? The media types, who hire the Jayson Blairs and all the rest, are going to start acting professionally at Reagan’s burial service? I guess we all should be thankful that it wasn’t completely fouled up. At least there was much that was moving that made it through.

But, Carl, _was_ there a “final interment”? If there was, wouldn’t everyone have stayed around for it? Whoever heard of a burial party leaving the burial ceremony before the burial takes place? Nobody explained what was happening. The multimillion dollar anchormen didn’t explain it. They didn’t even realize there was anything to explain. And I just read long threads at Lucianne.com, and not a single person has wondered about this.

I didn’t see the footage Mr. Auster is talking about, but to my recollection at all the funerals I’ve been to (only three), the coffin wasn’t lowered and buried until after everyone left. Maybe it’s a Midwest thing.

Nowadays the coffin is usually lowered much later. It often has to do with the gravediggers’ union contract as to working hours. Also, when coffins are place in a vault, the cover is quite heavy and needs to be lowered with a forklift, or other industrial equipment. The deferred final burial has become accepted as the sight of the throwing of shovels full of dirt on the coffin was often very distressing to the bereaved family. For myself, I would have preferred a more traditonal approach. That said, the final playing of “Taps” as the sun set in a golden haze into the Pacific Ocean was deeply moving.

The funeral was, of course, a magnificent ceremony. I would note only the curious behavior of the Clintons in the ceremony at the National Cathedral, who appeared with slack limbs and with eyes closed or nearly closed for extended periods, in the dissociative state of mental disconnection known to psychologists as fugue. Persons characterized by narcissistic personality disorder, as they so clearly are, have an enormous need to be the center of attention, and imagine themselves to be entitled to it at all times, no matter how undeserved or inappropriate in the circumstances. Deprived of such attention, they feel themselves to be in a state of non-existence, for there is “no there there” - they have no core sense of identity of their own. Clinton’s reported desire to horn in as a speaker at the services was another evidence. That he who had no personal relationship whatsoever with the Reagans, and who had spent his career trying to trash the ideas Reagan represented, should think of himself as entitled to place himself at the center of attention is grotesquely pathological.

The contrast between who Reagan was, and who the Clintons, and many other politicians are (for deep narcissism seems ubiquitous among them) couldn’t have been greater. Reagan entered politics with a desire to accomplish certain specific goals: other politicians are there to find the public recognition they urgently crave, and because trying to be all things to all people is what they would be doing in life anyway. I am reminded of Al Gore’s comment before the 2000 election in which he said that for George Bush, a loss would mean only that life goes on. The implication is clear: absent the public adulation, Al Gore would have no sense of existing, i.e., he has no sense of identity apart from the celebrity. The reason he is now making bizarre speeches in front of extreme groups, damaging though they be to any faint hope of political resuscitation, is to fulfil a craving for some sense of existence.

I’ve never heard of such a thing. How can you have a BURIAL without the BURIAL? Why would the burial be left to workmen, to be done in secret after all the mourners have left? What—is it considered too “crude” for people actually to see the burial, like watching sausages being made?

By the way, when I first saw it last night it was on a tv without cable. The networks stopped the coverage at 8 p.m. Pacific time, just as people started to walk away, with no explanation of what was going to happen next, as I said before. Later in the night I saw it repeated on CSPAN which covered the entire event, and what happened was, people kept walking up to the coffin by ones and twos and threes and bidding Reagan farewell as they left. It took a very long time, well over an hour, and finally it was done. But there was still no explanation of what was to happen to the coffin.

Regarding the Clintons’ behavior at the National Cathedral ceremony, some wag has noted that “it was the first time they have slept together in years.”

I hadn’t seen Thucydides’ comment of 10:08 when I posted my last. He wrote:

“Also, when coffins are place in a vault, the cover is quite heavy and needs to be lowered with a forklift, or other industrial equipment. The deferred final burial has become accepted as the sight of the throwing of shovels full of dirt on the coffin was often very distressing to the bereaved family.”

What? Having dirt thrown on the grave is what a burial is, for God’s sake! That’s the whole meaning of a burial. That the person is being buried. That he’s being put under the earth, or into a vault, that it’s final, he’s no longer in this world. Are protestants so abstracted from real life that they can’t stand to see a person actually buried! This is like a parody of the kinds of things critics often say about Protestants. So this really is coffin interruptus. The actual act is avoided (at least before anyone’s eyes except those of workmen). The completion of the act toward which this entire week’s epic length ceremonies had been headed, was avoided. And this abstemiousness concerning the actual burial is so thoroughgoing that the tv reporters didn’t even explain to us that this was what was happening. Why? Because that would require them to refer to the actual act of burial, which apparently will be too upsetting to people’s delicate sensibilities.

Mexican author Octavio Paz in The Labyrinth of Solitude, while he said many admiring things about Protestant America, also said that it is emotionally sterile, removed from the realities of life and death. What could prove his point better than this Protestant custom (which I had never heard of before) of concealing the burial from the mourners’ eyes?

At my sister’s (Jewish) burial last year, after the coffin was lowered into the grave, everyone took turns picking up the shovel and tossing some dirt onto the coffin, so that all of us personally participated in her burial. It was deeply moving.

At those few (fund. Protestant) funerals I attended, I also thought it was a bit strange that the coffin wasn’t lowered and buried. I was expecting a more participatory ritual with more closure, like Mr. Auster described. However, that wasn’t the case so I guessed that what I was expecting was something that New York/Jersey Mediterranean types (Jews, Italians, Greeks) did, which seems more effective to me.

A friend (of Italian-American background) writes:

“Come to think of it, I believe a couple of funerals in my extended family, most left the grave before the lowering, and then some of the less emotional men, like my Uncle Tony, would stay for that. But I think the reason was that Italians are so emotional, that there was fear they just couldn’t take the lowering and might even jump in the grave. So it’s the same but different as with the Prots!”

In Ohio it is UNcommon for the mourners to actually watch the coffin being interred. That is the job of the funeral staff after everyone, ESPECIALLY the family, has left the burial site. I don’t know what Mr. Auster’s personal experiences have been, but he should realize that they are not universal. Many people would prefer to have their last memory of Ronald Reagan’s coffin in those beautiful surroundings facing the setting Sun over the Pacific. If the news reporters didn’t comment on a deferred physical interment, it may be because it is now the norm in most places.

By the way, did anyone catch the writing inscribed in concrete on the wall behind the coffin?

Kudos to thucydides for his exceptional psychological analysis of Bill and Hillary several postings above. I too found the Clintons’ behavior during the funeral somewhat bizarre. Now I know why. It all fits.

I also am impressed by Thucydides’ analysis of the Clintons’ psychology. I think it applies to Clinton’s bizarre request to give a eulogy. But I’m not sure it applies to their behavior during the funeral. I think it was deliberate. By conspicuously nodding off, they were broadcasting, to friend and foe alike, their lack of respect for Reagan.

The Clintons’ behavior certainly had the effect of broadcasting a lack of respect, but keep in mind they are political animals above all else. One recalls Clinton emerging from Commerce Secretary Ron Brown’s funeral, laughing and joking until he spied cameras, and then instantly affecting a sorrowful mien. No, the Clintons would not be deliberately expressing inappropriate emotion that might give offense or excite unfavorable comment. In fact, they might not have realized they were on camera, as these shots were surely taken with a telephoto lens - one watching the service could see no cameras anywhere near on the angles facing them.

For me, an especially touching moment was when the military band played the Largo (slow movement) from Dvorak’s 9th Symphony, “From the New World,” as Reagan’s coffin was being placed aboard the presidential aircraft at Andrews Air Force Base. The melody, known popularly as “Going Home,” captures all the quiet beauty of the vast plains where Dvorak spent the summer of 1883 in the little Czech immigrant community of Spillville, Iowa. It is not too different a setting from downstate Illinois where Reagan was born and raised. Dvorak loved America, and he worked many popular melodies into the symphony, including “Turkey In the Straw.” For anyone who does not know his “New World” symphony, please get a CD and prepare for a wonderful experience.

FoxNews explained, prior to the service at the Library, that the actual internment would take place later that night or first thing in the morning. Also, that the family could come back for that if they wished.
It will take large equipment to move the marble slabs, then the lowering equipment would have to be installed, the casket lowered, equipment removed slabs put back.
Perhaps Fox was the only news company that mentioned this. Fox also continued the coverage of the private goodbyes, showing the family, the honour pallbearers, the Governor of CA, Jerry Lewis, Bo Derrik, etc.

We watched the whole hour and half on ABC, and heard them say nothing like this. Then, when the networks suddenly stopped their coverage, at 11 p.m. Eastern time, we moved frantically around the dial trying to find out what was going on. CBS, NBC, FOX, none provided any explanation. If there had been an explanation in advance, that would have been a whole different thing, you would have known what was happening and not been so startled by the ceremony ending without a burial.

Meanwhile, the entire media keeps referring to the “burial” that took place at the library as the nation watched.

Particularly touching was the sight of many uniformed members of the military escort and band paying their own final respects, after the guests had departed, often with tears streaming down their faces. Reagan connected with people. He thought each and every one was a precious individual, and the public knew it. This is why there has been such an enormous outpouring of witness. This contrasts with those on the left who like to talk about “the masses”, or who imagine that people are too incompetent to arrange their own lives, and need control from government - managed by “liberals,” of course. Liberals, puzzled by the public response, will put it down to Reagan’s being optimistic or a great communicator. Liberals are unable to understand what is happening, because to do so would require the acknowledgement of things that would mean giving up their identity as liberals. Reagan himself said that it wasn’t that he was a great communicator, but that he had great things he communicated. He said they called it the “Reagan Revolution,” which he would accept, but that to him it was really a rediscovery of the principles which had made America great.

But thanks to Mrs. Love for the information which at least makes this understandable. If, as appears, the coffin is going to placed in a marble sarcophagus, then the heavy marble top of the sarcophagus would have to be removed and replaced, requiring large equipment, and this would not have been appropriate for the burial ceremony because it’s more of an engineering job than a ceremonial act. If that’s the way it is, fine. But it is appalling and inexcusable that this wasn’t made clear to the nation.

Thucydides wrote: Regarding the Clintons’ behavior at the National Cathedral ceremony, some wag has noted that “it was the first time they have slept together in years.” LOL!

While GHW Bush may be the ultimate empty suit, Lord Hee-Haw and his wife are suely the ultimate preening narcissists. Thanks to Thucydides for his excellent analysis of these psycopaths

When my grandmother and grandfather passed (not at the same time, almost a year apart however), we took them to the cemetary where they are buried, and the coffin was taken to a small chappel on the grounds of the cemetary. After the pastor said a few final words, people started to leave, which was odd for me. Same type of feelings you had: Incompleteness. It was the first time that I had seen anything like that, and had been to a few funeral/burials, and the casket was always lowered into the ground in front of everyone. Strange.

Mr. Raymond writes:

“In Ohio it is UNcommon for the mourners to actually watch the coffin being interred. That is the job of the funeral staff after everyone, ESPECIALLY the family, has left the burial site. I don’t know what Mr. Auster’s personal experiences have been, but he should realize that they are not universal. Many people would prefer to have their last memory of Ronald Reagan’s coffin in those beautiful surroundings facing the setting Sun over the Pacific. If the news reporters didn’t comment on a deferred physical interment, it may be because it is now the norm in most places.”

When Mr. Raymond says that people don’t want to see the coffin interred, what exactly is he referring to? To the placing of the coffin in its final resting place? Or to the actual filling up of the grave? Of course I understand that people start leaving the grave site before the grave is filled in, but in my experience, and I thought it WAS universal, people at least stay to see the coffin put in its final position.

In any case, for us to be told that what happened on tv last night was a “burial” is simply untrue. I was expecting to see the coffin interred—interred in those beautiful Pacific surroundings, but interred. That is the culmination of this whole week-long event we’ve been watching. I cannot understand people not expecting and wanting to see that, or feeling that their experience of the funeral and burial is complete without their having seen that.

Actually, I don’t think I’ve *ever* been at a “burial” service where the coffin was actually lowered into the grave. Like Mr. Auster, I found that strange at first, and if I had anything to do about it, I’d change the practice, but I’ve come to accept that my wishes just aren’t the prevailing practice around where I live. (While it would be nice if, upon my death, my coffin were actually lowered into the grave at the end of the graveside service, I hope my survivors give first priority to making sure that the clergy (1) celebrate my funeral Mass with black vestments and (2) request prayers for my soul (rather than presuming, and telling everybody, that I’m now safely in Heaven).)

BTW, does does my memory fail me, or am I correct in recalling that at JFK’s obsequies in 1963, the coffin wasn’t lowered into the grave until the mourners had left Arlington?

A reader told me:

“If you had watched Fox News (which was excellent coverage by the way) you would have known that the interment would be later in a private ceremony either later that same evening or the next day. The media doesn’t have to be in on everything! You have been pretty negative regarding this moment in history. I was blessed by the coverage and the remembrance of the man and his integrity and honor.”

To which I replied:

We were watching on a tv without cable. Why couldn’t ABC, CBS, and NBC supply this basic information?

“The media doesn’t have to be in on everything!”

What does this mean? You just said that Fox did provide this essential information and suggested that I should have known it, but then you turn around and say that the media doesn’t have to provide this essential information. So what, after all, is your position on this? Is it important information or not?

“You have been pretty negative regarding this moment in history.”

I have written all kinds of deeply positive statements about Reagan and about the profound meaning of the week of mourning and what it brought out about Reagan. Just read over all my items about Reagan from this past week. But apparently some people, if they see some genuine and thoughtful criticism mixed with positive statements, see only the criticism. That is the school of “rah-rah” conservatism, of which I am not a member

Besides which, don’t you understand that I too was deeply moved by and involved in the burial service, and that was the reason why I was so unsettled by the surprising way that it ended? I was upset by that ending because I _cared_ about the burial service and the ending spoiled it, not because I was _against_ the burial service or was desirous of being critical of it.

The same reader whom I replied to above has answered me:

“Thanks for keeping me on my toes. As to what I meant re: the interment, I didn’t think it was necessary for the media to ‘watch’ this most private of ceremonies. The Fox report mentioned that the interment would be a private affair not open to media coverage. And I do thank you for not falling for everything that everyone says. It is a distinct failing of people at this time in our history to not ask why but to just go along to get along. The apathy is appalling and sometimes it is catching. We’ve forgotten how to debate an issue or ‘worse’ find ourselves in an attitude of intimidation brought on by those who are the rudest and most degenerate of our society. None of which holds water as an excuse. We need people like you that will energize us with truth and ideas that are worth considering. Thanks.”