Well, now that I’m done with the guffaws and howls from this absolutely ridiculous translation, I can write something. “Take a running jump, Holy Joes, humbugs!” Now there’s a phrase that will serve as a stern warning to Pharisees everywhere! It reminds me of Jimmy Carter talking tough to the Russians.

Perhaps Mssrs. Henson and Williams should now turn their great talents to giving us an authoritative translation of the Quran. That way we could all have a new insight into those verses commanding the faithful to make use of beheading and throat-slitting. They don’t really mean that, you see, they’re just the Arabic equivalent of “Take a running jump, Holy Joes, humbugs!.” I somehow doubt that the Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs would be smiling though - except perhaps in anticipation of seeing the resulting fatwa carried out upon these two.

I am very sorry Mr. Auster. Keep praying to Jesus. I just don’t know what else to offer. You seem to have been abandoned, although I don’t know this. These are horrific Biblical sayings to a Catholic and, I infer, an Anglican. Maybe it is a fad, and people such as you can contribute to change.

The thing I rely on in times of doubt is the Nicene or Apostles’ Creed, which has never and never will change. Even the sedevacantists and Popes never tried to change it. Jesus will never abandon his Church.

I reference an analysis here merely as an in attempt to inform people such as you, who are fully capable of understanding it, not to convert you: http://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/MOSTCAT.HTM

Here it is for the rest of us: ‘I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and
was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day He rose again. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty. From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the
resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.’

I know from intimate experience the implementation has not been perfect—far too much emphasis on guilt without forgiveness.

I gather that’s a more recent Episcopal version of the Apostles’ Creed. It makes an interesting contrast with the Apostles’ Creed in the 1928 Prayer book, which is used in traditionalist Episcopal churches:

I Believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary: Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he rose again from the dead: He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty: From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost: The holy Catholic Church; The Communion of Saints: The Forgiveness of sins: The Resurrection of the body: And the Life everlasting. Amen.

A correspondent notes that the Book of Revelations, which has been excised from this new so-called bible, “is (most of) the biblical basis for Christian fundamentalist support for the State of Israel.”

I just don’t have the aility to argue these fine points with Mr. Auster, whom I know is Christian, moral, and sincere.

I’m not sure what fine points Mr. Murgos means. But I thank him for the sympathy and the Apostle’s Creed, because the situation really is bad. I had something bad happen in my church about a month ago, that I’ve been thinking of writing about here, but haven’t gotten around to, but I’m more separated from my church than ever.

To Carl,

Could we say that this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a “Holy Joes, humbugs”?

Also, I think this is an example of the final stage of nihilism, the nihilism of destruction. People pushing this new “bible” seek death and non-existence. There’s no other way to explain it.

There are a lot of issues that I have with this. This is a translation of a translation at the very least. If a serious attempt is to be made this language must be translated from as close to the original text and original language as possible. I’m sure that all of you are aware of the game telephone. The message gets diluted as it passed through more & more human hands. This is one of the reasons why I don’t believe in a literal interpretation of the bible.

For those who do, though I want to bring up the point that there is speculation from religous scholars that the Book of Revealation actually refers to ancient Rome, and that Book either directly or indirectly helped to destroy the empire.

I also take issue with this translation because of the history of mistranslations and omissions in the bible. Many people think that the Bible is flawed because it discusses Cain and Able as the sons of Adam and Eve, but there is no mention of daugthers. There is a Book that indicates that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters but was omitted from the Cannon. There has also been a history of terrible misquotes, that would be funny if they weren’t true.

Mr. Henson is truly the Michael Moore of biblical scholarship. With this tripe, Williams’ endorsement, and all of the other death ratles, is it any wonder that the European new right has fled from Christianity altogether? If Evangelical churches here aren’t very careful, this is where they will end up. It’s an easy, undemanding path, well-trodden and broad. The only problem is that it ultimately leads to an extremely unpleasant destination from which there is no return.

It is good, friends, to read the well-known and much beloved words of the Apostles’ Creed after reading of such horrifying heresy endorsed by a prominent Christian leader.

My initial reaction to this was, I must admit, laughter, tinged with disgust. Religious issues apart, it seems never to have occurred, to these supposed Christians, that the Bible is a great work of literature and an essential element of Western culture even for non-believers. By rejecting the traditional version,they are actually isolating themselves, not reaching out, or whatever they think they are doing.

In their utter contempt for their readers’ intelligence, the author and supporters of this book show complete contempt for the mankind they are supposedly trying to reach out to and “include.”

Williams did not even have enough common sense to realize how his high praise for this laughable tripe would make him appear. I thought his reputation was as someone who, while progressive, was not so far out as to offend traditionalists. But liberals, of whatever stripe, keep moving ever leftward, following their destiny, which is nothingness and death.

This reminds me of another politically-correct translation (which may be apocryphal, but who can tell?).

“When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I acted as a child. But when I became a man _or woman_, I put childish things away.” (Someone was careless with the ‘global search and replace’ function. Doubtless, the feminist nun who did that job got paid handsomely.)

Another point: Homosexual theologians insist that Holy Writ does not condemn homosexuality or any other kind of politically-correct idiocy and that anyone who says otherwise is a closed-minded bigot who is blind to the evidence. If that were true, then there would be no reason to have these funky translations (demented paraphrases, really).

These people _know_ that what they’re saying is nonsense; they are simply wearing down the opposition by smearing them and chanting slogans.

The difficulties of Mr. Auster, others of his faith, Catholics, and Jewish people are extremely important to Christians and Jewish people. We are kin and must support one another. Error by and the tribulation of one affect us all. Who knows what the next Pope will do? I don’t mean to leave out other faiths; Catholicism teaches Jesus works through everyone and can save anyone whether or not he or she has ever heard of Jesus or the Pope—recall the prodigal son. The kinship though is close, and as traditionalists, we know kinship can be preferred even if we can’t set out a series of syllogisms that requires this conclusion. As Mr. Jim Kalb recently reiterated, reason includes things outside of formal mathematics and logic.

My related but additional point is to encourage our contributors that hold to the Jewish faith to continue to contribute here, and not to feel left out because of so much discussion about Christianity. By contributing, you ensure you are not left out. Anyone that does not contribute is left out; socialization resulted in mankind. An interesting Website I found some years ago in pursuit of Ann Coulter’s articles was Jewish World Review, a conservative Jewish site. Also, it probably has useful links for Jewish people.

In response to the posting yesterday by Faith, a sure sign of man-made fabrication is a book that fills in the details where the canon of scripture is silent. It is human nature to wonder about everything that was NOT revealed, and to write a book “explaining” it all. For example, we are curious about all the years of Jesus’ life before age 30, so people wrote books from their imaginations to fill in those years. What about the genealogies of famous Old Testament characters whose detailed genealogies were not given? Someone writes up some genealogies for them. Etc., etc.

If you spend some time studying the formation of the canon of scripture, you will find that the “omission” of these books was not a mistake, a conspiracy, or an accident. They were omitted because they bear all the signs of a lack of inerrancy and a lack of inspiration.

Being Catholic is not all sunshine and roses. My earlier point about the Catholic belief in the salvation of non-Catholics raises a heavy concern of mine: as a Catholic, I can’t plead ignorance of Catholic law as an excuse for my sinfulness just as American citizens can’t plead ignorance of the law as an excuse for lawlessness.

Has anyone heard about the coronation of “Reverend” Sun Yound Moon? The information that I have heard about it is hard to believe but many Congressman attended. Some of them reported that they were disturbed by the ceremony and had been duped into going, but some of them said it was great. I don’t know what to say about this.

I agree with Faith.

Oh yes, I heard about this mess. I understand that among the congresional luminaries were Generalissimo Cristobal Cannon - representing MALDEF, MEChA and LaRaza. I also read that the Rev. Moon now refers to himself as Messiah.

For more on the “lost gospels” and the formation of the canon of scripture, discussed earlier in this thread, see this current article from Christian History magazine: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/2004/002/8.15.html

I’d like to reply to Mr. Murgos’s statement about salvation being available apart from even hearing of Christ. (I agree with him that one needn’t have heard of the pope to be saved.)

The story of the prodigal son was a parable which Jesus told to the scribes and Pharisees to explain why He interacted with “publicans and sinners” (See Luke 15:1-2) and is not directly related to this question. It’s analogous to the parable of the two debtors told to Simon the Pharisee — Luke 7:36-50

Obviously those who have heard of Christ and his work must believe on Him. As He told the Pharisees: “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

And the Apostle Peter, in his address to the Sanhedrin, stated: “… Jesus of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead … is the stone which was set at naught by you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:10-12)

However, when the Apostle Paul wrote clearly about how one is saved in Romans 10: “… the word of faith which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, though shalt be saved … For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved,” he also asked, “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? … So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

I don’t make these points to raise an argument, but wanted to make sure this point of view was represented on what is a very weighty issue. Paul warned in 2 Cor 4:3, “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost.”

In agreement with Mr. Murgos, I much appreciate and value the involvement of our Jewish friends on this list, which I hope will continue.

Hello To All,

I came across this site while searching. I was at a Catholic board and someone posted the story of this New Bible and that the Archbishop of Canterbury endorsed it.

I could hardly believe what I was reading. First, is this really true? Is this some kind of joke?

Please give me an answer? I also read on the message board I was visiting, that one poster went to the Archbishop’s website and she said she could not find anything on it about the Archbishop approving of this! What’s the truth? I hope you are going to say it’s nonsense.

Dolores, you could research it for us on the web and let us know. Use your free google toolbar (if you don’t have it installed yet, do so, as it’s indispensable), and do a search for “Rowan Williams,” “John Henson,” “bible.” I saw several news stories about this.