Yes there is an IQ difference. Also a difference in the emotional outlook on the world. Temperament. 19th century anthropologists used to make un-PC comments about this. Third worlders were often known as “savages”

I think (the northern) winter is the great teacher and expander of intellect, brain power. If your people don’t have the smarts to prepare for and get through winter you die off. Secondarily, deserts weed out the weak and stupid who cannot secure water. I know there are civilizations that have done well in the heat. Have built pyramids and been astronomers. Still, I stick with my theory.

I can’t say that intelligence disparity is probably a major cause of the tragedy we have been experiencing. The intelligence disparity is a complex subject that lacks a consensus among the experts, who I certainly cannot debate with.

I am left with one of the only other possible cause: black culture, which was bad before integration and has only gotten worse. Since it appears blacks have no intention of doing anything to remedy their culture and whites seem just as unwilling, partly because white culture has become infected with black culture, I don’t have a solution that would keep out of the tinfoil hat club.

My solution is immediately calling out the National Guard to restore the safety of white culture that existed before integration; this would assist blacks also and reduce the number of people in prison. To reduce the numbers of national guardsmen needed, I would either prohibit blacks from entering white neighborhoods or at least allow police to stop and frisk any such blacks politely. I would end all giveaway programs and substitute workfare. I would encourage blacks to segregate themselves and develop their own law enforcement, schools, hospitals, doctors, and other institutions. The goal would be to end up in a situation where blacks would want segregation.

My solution would not necessarily result in a black community equivalent to the white community because black culture and intelligence might require white intelligence and culture to prosper. My solution is mainly intended to benefit me and my white culture. The solution would certainly free blacks from criminals.

Not sure that intelligence is really a factor. After all, there are plenty of stupid as Hell white people, and as far as “culture” goes, let’s just say that the pop culture these days is in the toilet pretty much.

I would submit…

1. After hundreds of years of discrimination (not to mention slavery), the plantation mentality got reinforced by the Dems, who saw the Blacks as their permanent meal ticket.

This was most unfortunate, since it happened at the precise time that Blacks were finally emerging from the chains of the past. There must be a special place in Hell reserved for white liberals of that era.

2. At about the same time, the culture of America transformed itself mostly into short attention span entertainment i.e. pop music and sports.

Due mostly to the efforts of mega-entrepreneur Berry Gordy, and some extremely talented (mostly Black) writers and musicians, who can only lament what has happened in their wake, “race music” became R& B oriented pop, which became pop.

As to sports, the money got bigger and bigger, and the teams became largely Black—due in no small part to more of the plantation mentality.

Please see
http://www.bestwriters.com/mds/bw_m080601.htm

With all this money available, where is the incentive to go to school (acting white)?

Now, scores of Black youth see their destiny in Sports and music, caring little, it seems, that a scant few will actually make it. Because, if they don’t there’s always the Dems…

So, we have come full circle—-

Back on the plantation with the strong Blacks earning their living by their physical toil, or just being in a latter day minstrel show.

Not a pretty picture.

3. Add to this the incredible tribalism that infects this group, so that no one dares to speak out, and you come to where we are today.

(How long would a white Al Sharpton last??)

I would like to see specifics brought to this argument. In what measurable ways has integration been a tragedy? Which groups have been harmed and how? Which have benefited? If someone were to write a “Bell Curve” type bestseller on integration, what would its main points be?

In reply to Thrasymachus, no time for specifics at the moment, but here’s the general idea. Integration, more than any other factor, produces the expectation of and demand for equality. If blacks and whites are living in different communities, going to different schools, then the differences in collective achievement levels are not going to bend us out of shape. But if whites and blacks are in ths same schools and classrooms, then the race difference is right in our faces. Any disparate outcome becomes unbearable to our conscience. The whole institution must be re-constructed so as to produce equality.

It’s the same with immigration. As long as alien cultures are in other countries, they have their ways, we have ours. The question of “equality” doesn’t really arise. But if those cultures are here, then we have to start treating those cultures as “equal” to our culture, and thus multiculturalism is born.

The tragedy of integration is watching a group of people with an average IQ of 85 struggle to function in an information society that is leaving them rapidly behind. As for harm: check out Jared Taylor’s book Paved Whith Good Intentions to see a 40 year black on white crime wave which has no equal in our history.

The massive black on white violent crime is due directly to integration, where blacks were allowed into close proximity to whites in white neighborhoods, on white public transit, in white commercial areas such as shopping centers and entertainment districts, and in white schools. Integrating blacks into the voting process ensured black access to white pocketbooks legally.

Blacks having the vote allied with liberals to institute lenient, insane parole policies, lenient sentencing for violence, restrictions on prison construction, and to prevent the national guard from being called up, to spend money on wasteful welfare which sucked money away from crime deterrence.

Blacks have benefited by getting jobs they never worked for and are not capable of doing. They don’t believe they can do it alone because they have never been required to do it alone; so they don’t want to give up the set-aside system and the antidiscrimination laws that exist because, in the beginning, massive numbers would be fired for insolence, incompetence, and laziness. They must earn their way into civilized society; they will enter it in no other way. If they can’t earn it, then they should be segregated out to live with dignity within their own communities. But like the blacks, the Palestinians refuse to acknowledge their limitations and seethe with hatred for their prosperous neighbors of a different culture.

I’ll leave it to blacks to study and to complain about the ill effects of integration on their culture. I have enough on my hands striving to protect my white culture.

I am a little surprised to see posters to this thread calling for government enforced segregation. The proper response to the excesses of government attempts to enforce integration is for it to cease that activity, not to embark on forced segregation. The black population may be on average at the 85th percentile, but that population is only about 12% of the total. The number of whites at the 85% percentile is roughly comparable in total. Is it proposed to segregate them? Persons at the low end of the IQ scale can lead decent productive lives, but they more than others need a moral framework of rules. This is exactly what they have been deprived of by the elite liberal culture.

100 years of IQ testing means something. People use every excuse possible to avoid the facts of intelligence differences in racial groups; but reality will out.

I think J. Hagan is making far too much of IQ.

Look instead to culture and morality rot, and our socialistic/athestic government.

You want low IQ?? Why not test some of the wannabe gang-banger white teeny-boppers at your nearest mall.

Black criminals are not voluntarily going to stop going into white areas and institutions to victimize whites.

Yes I am proposing to segregate out whites who are insolent, incompentent, or lazy. They would comprise the possibly inevitable poor that live in shacks in the bad sections of white areas, no doubt adjacent to black areas. If they fit a criminal profile (tatoos, unkempt, loitering, no money, e.g.) they also would be stopped and frisked when found in nicer areas of town and forced to leave. Let the deadbeats protect themseves from deadbeat on deadbeat crime.

I am tired of hearing how white liberals have contributed to the negative part of black culture. So we don’t do anything about it? I don’t care how we got here, I am offering concrete, immediate, humane, dignified solutions to prevent the rape, murder, and displacement of my white culture.

The average Black IQ in the U.S. is 82 or 83, it has been rounded up to 85. Half the Black population falls below the 82 or 83 mean. This is a troubling factor that can not be ignored. All the culture, all the education in the world, can not change this fact. Of course all people, Black and White, should live in dignity, but as a culture we need to understand the facts, and live with them as best we can.

More on IQ and the g-factor: 50% of Blacks fall under the IQ mean of 82 or 83, this puts that group at borderline retarded. If someone could show me a place in the world where Blacks thrive outside of White society I would like to see it ? People can deride test scores all they want, but the facts seem to speak for themselves.

Seems that we are arguing for argument’s sake.

Of the myriad things wrong with America today, why obsess on Black influence? Is the sterotypical Mexican-American culture any better, or are the IQ scores?

You are all correct—

There is much to deplore in watching our once homogeneous society go down the tubes, but you are nothing more than prophets without an audience.

This country started going downhill with Lincoln, and has been headed that way ever since. So what?

For better or worse, we have to live in it, and *try* to improve what we can.

You might as well deplore that Jews—who should be conservative are liberal and NOTHING will ever change that—EVER.

Deplore all you want that we have abortion on demand. That, too, will NEVER change.

Guess what—We are living in the new dark ages. The only way this thing might improve is about 20 more 9/11’s (not that I would really want that) or anyone in the Republican party growing a set of huevos.

Until one of those things happen, pontificate all you want, but no solution will appear.

Mr. Shaw writes: “You might as well deplore that Jews, who should be conservative, are liberal and NOTHING will ever change that—EVER.” Well, the secular Jews, who are mostly liberal, have a high intermarriage rate and a low birthrate, while the orthodox Jews, who are mostly conservative, have a low intermarriage rate and a high birthrate. So don’t count your chickens….

From your lips to God’s ear…

I am concerned about the sparseness of comments about this subject that, until the mass immigration juggernaut revealed itself, was the National Question. Have the commentators given up on the problems caused by integration? Problems that are ignored only get worse. Do the viewers agree with Mr. Auster and with my proposed solutions so they feel no need to say they agree? Are the proposed solutions crazy? The proposed solutions are not realistic at the moment, but what if a dirty nuclear bomb is ignited in Washington, D.C., killing all government officials? What if Dean becomes an immigration reformer, robbing Republicans of many of their voters and thereby losing many Hispanics and their black allies? Momentous events change history. If we are not ready to offer our solutions, solutions we dislike will be accepted instead.

I’m sure P Murgos recalls the rapid turn around in California over granting illegals the right to drive. The people forced the politicians to recind this crazy law, within weeks ! When, and if, something positive happens with immigration, I believe it will happen fast and furious. Now, that said, I currently see no will to make such a thing happen, either now, or in the near future.

Here’s an example of what integration has resulted in: http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2003/08/11/daily28.html

Part of the Federal oversight by the Kansas City School District involved the disparity in black/white scores, which is considered ipso facto evidence of discrimination. The schools are under enormous pressure to equalize these scores, which ends up with a general lowering of standards — a fact which is typically obfuscated in the reporting.

For me, the Grutter cases were a sort of final straw. ‘Discriminate but obfuscate’ — and most of the public either has no idea what has happened, or just doesn’t care. The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment has been overturned! By judicial fiat! The Court has again amended the Constitution.

Separate, but ostensibly equal has been replaced with mixed, but manifestly, (if now more discreetly) unequal.

It is harder for me to fault those who fought to retain Segregation. They saw what was coming, and in too many ways have sadly been proven correct. While I wouldn’t advocate a return to state-enforced segregation, mere opportunity opened by ending it wasn’t enough to satisfy the endless demands. If the government would stop the social engineering designed to throw people together, an organically driven and general separation would be the likely result.

Mr. Auster put it well in an earlier thread: “I think in a more natural, healthy society there would be much more residential, educational, and social separateness between the races. If they weren’t in the same schools, then there wouldn’t be the expectation that they have exactly the same academic achievement.”

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/001818.html
(October 11, 2003 01:26 AM)

Excellent points by Mr. Hagan and Mr. LeFevre. I just don’t understand why violence by blacks on white people is tolerated by whites. The untold tens of thousands of such horrific encounters are not national news daily but are ignored while we count every soldier killed in Iraq and agonize over every black justly executed for horrific crimes. It is no argument to say forced segregation is undesirable; there is no moral equivalency between violence and forced segregation to prevent violence, as far as I can tell.

Part of the reason there is no will to at least encourage segregation or to use the national guard is because segregation is a taboo subject. Hopefully, as Mr. Auster and others raise the issue, we and others will talk about it as much as we do illegal immigration. This is why I made it my duty to comment on the subject.

Mr. Murgos’s point throughout this thread are appreciated. I would only add to his point about the undesirability of segregation: This is one of the dilemmas we face in this fallen world, where our choices aren’t between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ — they are between ‘bad’ and ‘much worse.’

Segregation was ‘bad.’ Where we have gone is much, much worse, for blacks and whites alike.

The kind of segregation I envision would not be the segregation that ended in the early 60’s. It would be a segregation that both sides would learn to love and be proud of. Blacks would have as much opportunity as their fellow blacks would allow. It would be a segregation similar to Belgium’s. Each side would trade with one another just as nations trade. There could even be an integrated workplace but only to the extent blacks are qualified. The armed forces would be a place for an alliance just as we ally with Britain.

The suggestion of merely encouraging segregation instead of forcing segregation is still a very good idea. The police, though, must be able to stop and frisk blacks that come into white refuges.